View Full Version : Will I be sued?
If I were to resell web hostings and I happen not to Register my company with RCB, will I be sued?:confused:
I personally don't think so.
The only people you are going to get into trouble with is with IRAS but that's an entirely different story.
What is IRAS and what trouble will I get into? What is the cause and effect and is there any solutions??? =P
There is nothing wrong without registering a company and you will not have any trouble with IRAS too.
Stop worrying !
Scroller
13-11-2002, 23:20
no 1 question which will determine if you'll get sued .... how old are you?
Scroller
14-11-2002, 00:35
14 ... ok, then do what you want to do. You can't register a business @ 14 anyway. But if you're serious to do a proper business, earning proper money, get your parents to help out and register the business in their name.
But than if I wont be sued why bother to register? By the way,
http://www.freestylehosting.com
Is the prices in SGD?
http://www.orisysasia.com/
Do they have any reseller plan and how much?
I am looking for a reseller plan. around $10-$20. I know is quite little. But I dont need a good account.
Correct me if I'm wrong. You can not be sued since you're only 14. But I think under the law, your parents or legal guardians are responsible for your actions, which means that they may be sued?
Hmm..I oso not sure abt it. But if I don't do anything illegal like cheating customers nothing will happen right? Btw, any good web hostings reseller plan to recommend?
alva chew
14-11-2002, 09:25
Never assume that your business will not go wrong. Always be prepared to have a contingency plan.
And, seriously, if people want to sue you, they can always find the ways and means to do so. They can simply sue you under tort, or professional negligence, which can still corner you even if you are not a registered business.
If your business involves using a Singapore address, and operates physically in Singapore, you are required by law to have a registered business.
The only thing you can bet on is that e-commerce laws in Singapore are still in the early stages, so there are a lot of grey areas. Which means you still can argue your way through. BUT the law of tort, professional negligence can still slam you down. So be prepared.
At least that's what my law tutor told me.
Wow.....so should I setup my "business" without registering?
Do all of you write the business plan for your business also?
Goblet ... if you dun mind me thinking out loud ... go think it through, wait it out a couple months. I dun think you're ready to do a "business". Talk to your parents, older friends, learn more before you decide if you really want to do this.
Hmm...I want to do everything on my own... =P
Originally posted by Goblet
If I were to resell web hostings and I happen not to Register my company with RCB, will I be sued?:confused:
Isn't... then I will be one of them on the list :p
I even resell dedicated servers to my customers... :bowdown: please don't sue me :D
Thanks.
Kindest regards,
Choon
Hi Goblet,
I mean anybody can sue anyone regardless of what... as long as one party is willing to take the trouble and $$$ to sue the other party :p
Thanks.
Kindest regards,
Choon
Wow...than its quite dangerous.....
By the way, u have any reseller plan around $15??? No need so good.
Heng Chai
14-11-2002, 20:31
Do remember that exactly because you're 15, if you get sued your parents will take the legal blame. I suggest you make sure your parents know what exactly is going on and what's involved. They are in better position to advise you than any of us.
Furthermore, striking out by yourself doesn't work. Where are you going to get the capital to start out? Reseller accounts aren't free for sure. What happens if you somehow fail to achieve what you promised and the customer is in the position to either sue or claim against you? He can still sue/claim against you as an individual and due to your age, your parents will need to come into the picture and if they don't even know what's happening, its going to turn ugly within your family. Let them know what you want to do, discuss, draw up a business plan and let your parents "approve". I don't think any parents won't support their children if they know its a workable idea.
Goblet - You're just 14 and I believe, and speaking from personal experience, running a business alone isn't easy. When I started out I had people to help me, system administrators to guide me along, certifications to complete.
You don't hear from your friends and just go around showing off to them that.. "Oh I am running a hosting business." Come on.. If you really haev what it takes, you still need to have a talk maybe over dinner with your parents, or maybe someone who is older than you.
You will not get sued directly but indirectly you can get trouble with the law in the sense that your parents can get sued. Unless you are certain you are able to cope school and work and have carefully thought about it throughly, I believe you sholdn't start a hosting business even without a proper business plan.
In the sense of your parents support, do you have enough financial support? Our reseller plan can easily set you back at SGD$60 a month. If you think you are looking at a reseller plan at just 15 dollars, why don't you maybe contact a hosting company that will get you a hosting plan maybe less than 10 bucks a month than speak to them nicely saying that you shall purhase hosting accounts from them at a cheaper or discounted rate, then resell the package to your client at a higher rate.
This is not a fool-proof plan to because let's put it this way, your clients do not pay you so you in turn cannot pay your host. Your host can have the power to sue you if they are strict.
PM me if you need any help. :book:
yea.. Heng Chai and Glenn has a point there... very dangerous if you dont have plans... and just rush into setting up a business.. you should really think it through...
For us.. we two even had to site down discuss with each other and speak to other IT professionals and a lawyer friend of ours to talk about the setting up of our company.
Oh..ok...Now I know....But getting into webhosting business for me izint to show of...but to so called gain more knowledge. =)
Heng Chai
15-11-2002, 08:15
A business isn't just gaining of knowledge. There are risks and problems involved. If you want to gain experience then its a totally different story. At your age now, gaining knowledge about servers is good cause you definately have spare time lying around playing CS or something. This time can be used to read books or actually experimenting on your own PC. You can grab a Pentium 1 PC over at HardwareZone forums for less than 300 to install linux and play with.
For business experience, its too early for you at this point of time. You have just completed your secondary 2 education and sec 3 onwards is going to be work work work, its not the time for you to start running a business. Age is not the question here but rather your ability to handle both studying and business. Your parents will still prefer you to be spending time thinking of scoring full marks than spending time running the business. You have plenty of time after O levels to work on that and your parents can't stop you/will help you then.
Ok..thks. btw, 300 for Pentium 1???? 400+ can get a Duron.... hehe...
well, firstly, it is for you to gain knowledge of the Linux system. Not only maybe you have the cash, just to buy a control panel, you still need to have your system updated, install security patches etc.
WAHLAU!
Why do you all have to scare him off?! :confused:
Goblet will definitely not get sued nor will his parents get into any trouble.
He is only thinking of getting a reseller plan to do virtual hosting.
How much does a virtual account cost?!
Who the hell would sue him?!
Only an idiot would spend few thousands to sue over something less than a hundred !
and who the hell would know where is he from?!
"Talk about law and running a biz !" :rolleyes:
Originally posted by bkm
WAHLAU!
Why do you all have to scare him off?! :confused:
Goblet will definitely not get sued nor will his parents get into any trouble.
He is only thinking of getting a reseller plan to do virtual hosting.
How much does a virtual account cost?!
Who the hell would sue him?!
Only an idiot would spend few thousands to sue over something less than a hundred !
and who the hell would know where is he from?!
"Talk about law and running a biz !" :rolleyes:
Small claims court?
yea whats that have not heard of it...
Heng Chai
24-11-2002, 23:23
http://www.smallclaims.gov.sg/
Small Claims Tribunal. Allows you to legally claim money against another party, whether company or personal. Fee is small. Only drawback is that if the other party still refuses to pay, it will cost quite a bit to forcefully claim, as in they will go to his house/office and start pasting stickers (you get what i mean. :D)
In the US, not turning up at a hearing = walkover.
Not sure if it applies here.
Heng Chai
25-11-2002, 01:57
The same thing applies. If the party doesn't turn up it automatically means that it is taken that he's guilty. However, the cost to claim the money back is too high to carry on. Its more like a legal threat that's all, unless you can afford to pay for the sticker pasting.
how about hiring a debt collector?
Originally posted by biggulp
how about hiring a debt collector?
;)
Heng Chai
25-11-2002, 14:05
Debt collectors cannot go around pasting stickers. :) Not a sure way to get your money back. The legal way is expensive but for large amounts still quite okay.
Dear Users,
I am aware that you all would like to encourage Goblet to get on with his plans. However, I think there is a need to state the facts back here.
Goblet, You definitely need to get your business plans out, and that is very important. Do not go into a venture or anything just because of the thought that you can always earn money to offset expenses. It is a difficult and wearisome task.
Using a company name without registering it can carry a penalty of S$5000 or 1 month imprisonment, but since you are 14, you are not liable for the imprisonment sentence, but YOU MAY BE BARRED FROM CARRYING OUT FURTHER BUSINESS IN FUTURE.
Registering a Sole Proprietor cost little (Under S$100), however, a sole proprietor carries personal liability, so however unlikely it is, your business may go wrong and people can sue you till you go bankrupt. A Limited company will cost significantly more (Up to S$10,000) depending on your company function. The pro to this is that you cannot be sued any further after the company is closed down. Means you do not carry much liability.
PLEASE BE AWARE - Registering a business is not as easy as you think. Sole proprietors must report to IRAS of their business dealings, and If you are not dealing with big figures, the administrative charge is sufficient to get the better of you. Limited companies have to get a Certified Public Accountant (EXPENSIVE!!!) to close their accounts with the government.
The best way you can do things is to be a freelance service provider, although your capabilities are less, you are able to provide a web hosting service. IRAS might go over your head if the numbers involved are significant enough, so if you want to play safe, amounts above 1000 dollars should preferrably go through your mum or dad for taxation.
Remember Goblet, the best way is to plan, and next best thing is to talk to your parents and elders, as they would probably know much more. You can then engage the help of the RCB if you have further queries. I will encourage you to go on with your business plans, but please do be careful, and think carefully before you take on the challenge, as the world out there is often not as simple as what you think it is.
All the best in your endeavours.
:)
hmmm anyway you can't sign any contract if you're below 21. anything you signed will not be valid in the eyes of law.:cool:
so i'm wondering how are you going to prepare legal documents and contracts for your clients if you're going into biz.
just my 2-cent worth =P
Originally posted by SG.GS
Debt collectors cannot go around pasting stickers. :) Not a sure way to get your money back. The legal way is expensive but for large amounts still quite okay. i saw the straits times article seemed quite effective!:D
Heng Chai
26-11-2002, 11:34
18 actually. Any contract signed when you are under 18 is not valid legally. But unless he's going for his own co-location or dedicated server in Singapore, he doesn't need to sign any contracts. The company can be registered by his parents and him appointed as the manager. If his customers sign contracts, its with the company and not with him.
Okok...so I decided not to go into it.... =)
well Goblet, maybe its not quite yet, but i think you could try freelancing.
no lar.. means u work alone.. like just as a personal designer.
Oic..isnt it the same as reseller plan???
well actually being a freelance, you can't usually just get clients to you, but you can consider yourself a referral to the hosting company, meaning you get can consider what you get as commission. the only diff here is that you have to remember that you are an individual service provider and not a company. so as long as you don't quote out anything with any "company name".. its okay. i checked it out for you, you are still not eligible to be bounded by a contract till you are 16.
actually.. the bottomline is you can still run a company. its a roundabout way, but it still comes down to almost the same thing in the end.
You guys really bo liao !
Which idiot would spend S$50 for small claims to claim for how much?!!! $10, $20 or $30 for a virtual account?
And when any of you started to get your first virtual account, does anyone of you really know how old is the person running the biz?
Did any of you physically SIGN a contract?!
:bangwall:
yes bkm, i usually check. thats why i always pay face to face. its not the money that matters, its the principle and the ethics. if someone promises you good service but fails to deliver, i'll spend $500 for a $5 dollar thing to make sure it doesn't happen again to someone else.
means you only use local host la!
cool...........;)
but.........not everyone can pay $500 le.............
of course i was just quoting an example. well, i mean other than local hosts, its easy to check up on a company using the respective country's company registration database. if a company is registered, it is twice as likely to accept legal responsibility than one who is not registered. agreed?
Heng Chai
27-11-2002, 01:27
Well, we're talking in the event that Goblet has a registered company. The liabilities are there for sure.
Well, we're talking in the event that Goblet has a registered company. The liabilities are there for sure
In case you forgot the thread question...........
Will I be sued?
If I were to resell web hostings and I happen not to Register my company with RCB, will I be sued?
:rolleyes:
Goblet states "wants to gain knowledge". Exactly what kinda knowledge are you seeking in the first place?
Goblet, I have a few advise and experience for you...
Just like u, maybe a little slower than u, I started out building websites since sec2. At that time, I did not and dare not think about reselling cos my own webhosting I went in search everywhere for a free one. About 2 years later, I have this thought of reselling in mind, but I do not dare to take the risk and I do not have so much money to even start. Hence I scrapped off this idea.
I had checked the rules and regulation on starting a business in Singapore. libra's earlier post is the rule. Yes, u cannot be sued since u are a minor consdering u are 14yrs old. But if they catch u, I dont know what will happen to u. I only know you wil not be allowed to do business in the future! Also, if there's any $ transcation invovled, I believe the gov will tax you for it. You cannot run. If u do not register your company with RCB, that means u are escaping tax. (is this line correct? Anyone correct me if I am wrong). After considering all these factors, I dropped my entire idea.
After which, I went around to design websites, I created free ones for friends. Yes, FREE not at a single cent. Why? Because I just want to practise and improve my skills. Then I went on to programming, I picked up PHP and MySQL database, all these while, I never stop!
Now I am 17yrs old, I still do not have any company or whatsoever, but I am still doing free things for people. Just take it as doing voluntary work and on the other hand, u improve yourself. All these can be in your portfolio the next time u enter the work force. I am now coding an online game...
Last but not least, freelance is not as easy as one may think. U need to have those lobang! Your friends may have lobang, but imagine u charge your classmate for coming up a website for them? I wont do such thing unless it's a major website!
That's all I have got to say so far. Hope this helps!
All the best! :)
Cheers!
hi guys I need some advise on freelance designer, recently I've asked a freelance designer to design my site.
After getting the deposit it was so hard to get the designer which happens
to respond 2 times to my reply but no inital work was done and I wasn't
able to contact the designer since then.
It's odvious that the designer is disregarding my reply and not hounoring the
contact signed.
I'll need some advise one such dishonest designer although the it's only a few hundreds dollars which is not worth for me to sue but I'll known that such incident has happen to another client too.
If more people have has been involved then the amount would be staggering!
rainboiboi
06-11-2006, 18:07
Hi,
I think you have enough advise from the guys who are professional in web hosting. But right now, I think the best way is to play around with basic web hosting. You can always get a free account with small space and play with it. Installing open scripts, monitoring the importance of site uptime and such. Even more, you can get a cheap and small reseller account and sell to a few friends.
At this age, try to treat this as a hobby. Not as a job for earning big bucks. Try to get yourself familiar with languages and software (like SQL, php, asp, and linux and many many other more) that are needed to run a proper server. Read and understand the specs of a server, be it the parts, network or legal issues.
Finally, when you are of legal age to start a company and armed with required knowledge, then you can start a company.
Good Luck.
P.S. I've been playing around with webhosting since I was 15, now I'm 17 and still learning. So, I see no hurry in jumping into it. =)
bloomer2009
19-12-2006, 15:42
Dear Goblet,
my friends and I are considering getting our own rack at certain DataCenter (in Singapore) to host our own servers. However, since we'll not be using all of the capacity, we are looking to see if there are any other singaporeans interested in sharing the extra capacity. If interested, just PM (private message) me - for discussion.
miltongoh
19-12-2006, 18:01
how come your content doesn't match your topic?
contactect
20-12-2006, 18:02
To be or not to be registered, its your choice. Either way you need to pay tax (Tax law don't care if the money earned is legal or not).
You will not be sued but you'll be fine if the Registrar of Business choose to issue a summon. Commencing a business without registering with the appropriate stat board is an offence under the law. Its always fine fine fine in Singapore. Pay up and you'll be fine.
Catch, if you later wish to register your business as it grows very big, you'll need to declare when you start business - becareful of what you entered cause false declaration to a govt body is a serious offece (if they ever found out the truth). But if you say nothing but the truth, pay the fine. ;-)
Minor - minor cannot be sued nor can they enter into a contract as any contract signed with or by minor cannot be executed in the court of law. Thats why when a below 18 buy handphone under contract, a legal guardian or parent have to counter sign.
My $0.02
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