Home Office scheme

[jessw]

Here's the answer to the problem that's been plaguing some of us! Thumbs up to the Home Office scheme that's replaced the Home Technopreneur thing. Now you can register a home office for S$20 and the best thing is, they don't even want you to place a sign outside your house!

Signage

5. The display of business signage outside the residential premises where the small-scale business is conducted is not allowed. This is to ensure that the residential character of the estates is maintained.



I call that pretty good. :D It's easier for start-ups like me to register my business without having to resort to a virtual office (which I still have doubts about).

[Hostings]

Yeah. It was released just recently. But i believe customer will feel safer to see a standard office address than a home address. But i agree that this is a very good scheme.

[DoorKeeper]

Whether it really helps one's business is one thing, I personally feel that this new rule helps Singaporean to start thinking about striking out on their own. Once the mental block that says "The government does not allow this and that" is removed, new options and choices are open to everyone.

I feel indignant that the authorities took this long a time (and only probably after the effects of SARS) to relax the restriction on 80% of the Singaporean population who live in HDB flats. If they had done this 5 years ago, their efforts to promote entrepreneurship would have met with more success.

I am giving the policy makers a C+ grade for foresight in this case.

[jessw]

But i believe customer will feel safer to see a standard office address than a home address.

I suppose this scheme gives people the option of telling their customers that they're a registered business working from home, so it may not be too bad. It's still better than the Home Technopreneur scheme anyway, in my opinion.

And I agree with Doorkeeper about the entrepreneurship issue. A lot of people never act on their innovative ideas because of a) high costs of starting up and b) inconvenience. I think this will help quite a bit.

[Hostings]

The registration for Home Office(HO) is SGD20, is to register yourself legally having an office at home. But the registration of business is seperate, costing you SGD15 for a name, and SGD100 for a business type.

Home Office(HO) is actually an upgrade of Technopreneur Home Office (THO). At 1999, the government introduced THO, to allow business owners to have office inside their house. This is restricted to owners who are doing technology based business.

However, this new scheme of HO, will allow almost any form of business, except for retailing and direct sales. The scheme will allow up to 2 staff, be it director/secretery/customer into the apartment(this is liable for HDB flats).

This plan, HO, will cease away little silly rules like placing of a signboard outside the apartment, and some procedures.

I will have to agree with DoorKeeper that the scheme came a little too late, well, there's no point limiting to just technology based, when any business can be conducted at home, except for retailing. I don't see a big difference anyway. I think this still do not help, as it is limited to "adults", above 21. It'll change their mindset to a little, but i suppose these enterpreneurs do more retailing business than anything else, thus this do not help much. However, the growing teenager within the age 15-20 are the ones who are going to be benefit from this, as i believe they are becoming more "technological". From TNP on 11th June, the THO only attracted 696 people, and even with this HO plan going, i don't think it'll be more than 1000.

If the government sight is not put on the working population now, but is the students studying, the "going to be" working class in 3-5 years time, i think the launch of this scheme is an act of good foresight, and it is a right time.

But another point is that, even if this scheme is going to benefit the future 3-5 year working class, how beneficial is it? It is a typical Singaporean mindset to be "kiasu". After studying so many years, they're afraid of losing, thus, from many articles around, they might not want to start a business although there's this scheme around. My question is, what more do you think the government can do, to cease this mindset, changing to a "BoKiaSu, BoKiaSi" mindset from a "KiaSu/KiaSi" one?

[Hostings]

Well, it sounds that you seem to be one of those customers who "despise" underaged young enterpreneurs. Well, don't forget, they are gonna be the next generation who will rule over your head in say 10-15 years?

I've heard this proverb from a "Sex Education Talk". It makes no difference in having a teen @ 17 and 18 surfing porn site, although it is stated, adult content for 18 and above. In a way, it refer back to this situation. It's not going to be all-age matter. SG's independent age is 21, unlike US, 18. Thus this shows that the independent age is due to the level of maturity of a person, in his environment. You mean, an enterpreneur at 20 can't do a better job than a 21 young chap? I doubt that, seriously, to 100%.

I seriously think you're really having a grudge against teenager, or your underage members. I remember another post on this as well. Your way of describing teenager is

I don't believe that customers prefer doing business with an underaged, as they fear that [B]these people can't deliver what they promised or that these people are mostly not the serious type.[B]

These words tells me, in a more rude way, which is "irresponsible, and unserious sort". Well, don't have to deny, it just meant that way. The reason many teen can't do this is due to their learning environment, culture and such, and is NO WAY a compliance of their age. If a person younger than you, has a good learning environment and culture on responsibility and such, i suppose i'll catch any and they are way better than you.

I do not wish for a fight or anything, and in no way on purpose to offend you. But your attitude and POV towards teenagers simply makes me puke. Well, just a note, i know of alot of "underage" enterpreneurs working very well, not just in these "IRC/Web thing", but handling retailing centers and bargain centers, and they far surpassed.

Just some more words to add on to your post, i agree that this benefits not just the enterpreneurs, but also the customers ultimately. As the enterpreneurs pay lesser for their cost, at least for a rental of their office, they're gonna get their things cheaper in the end, ultimately.

But why do you say budding enterpreneurs are going to take a disadvantage stand? I thought this is going to lower their startup cost, paying lesser upfront during their "budding" period? Care to explain furthur?

[EriyaNet]

Hi guys,

I'm new to the forum, but old to the IT industry.

Indeed, nowadays youngsters are much more techsavvy than the older generation, and perhaps are more than capable of doing the technical side of webhosting. However, one very important point which many people do not realise is that, in any court of law, your hosting contract with an "underage" or "youngster" may not be legally enforceable. Suppose a customer signs up for a mega hosting plan @ S$120/month with a 1 year contract term sold by a company run by a technically proficient 13 yr old. That's S$1440. He can always abscond with the money, and when you sue him for breach of contract or commercial fraud, there is the possibility that he pleads not guilty in court because he's "too young to know the consequences" and therefore cannot be held responsible for his actions. That's if the law suit even gets to the court in the first place especially since he's a minor. Then perhaps you'd sue the parents.. but gosh the whole process itself is such a headache!

I'm not putting down the webhosting businesses set up by "youngsters" or those "underage", but these are very real and serious issues with which customers have to grapple, and I can understand why some customers would rather not deal with "underage" or "young" entrepreneurs.

[masmi]

Hmm, can under 18 apply for this HO thing? it's 100 + 15 + 20 right? 135 altogether..

[webline]

anyway, under singapore law, a contract which is signed by anybody who's 21 and below (considered minor) is not valid. you can't sue them at all. never sign a contract agreement with a 21 and below. ;-)

[jessw]

Actually, I believe that if a minor were to want to enter the web hosting profession (or any kind of business), he should seek his parents' help. That way, if he were to do anything illegal or what, then his parents/guardians are held responsible. That's what I think, anyway.

[webline]

jessw, you're right. agreed with that.

[chin]

Originally posted by jessw
Actually, I believe that if a minor were to want to enter the web hosting profession (or any kind of business), he should seek his parents' help. That way, if he were to do anything illegal or what, then his parents/guardians are held responsible. That's what I think, anyway.

I totaly agree on this too..

[Hostings]

masmi : The HO must be registered by the flat owner, or anyone with prove to have rental documents. Moreover, you need a registered name for that. Thus, no one under 21 is supposed to do that.

EriyaNet : Firstly i would like to thank you for the post. But i'll have to say, i agree to your first part of post, but not the second quarter. Indeed, there are alot of teens thinking of making quick money out of this.
1) Are they wrong?
I suppose yes and not.
Yes- they are kid.
No-Are't you trying to making revenue from it too ?
But you're throwing the whole potato away when only a small part of it had rot.

However, one very important point which many people do not realise is that, in any court of law, your hosting contract with an "underage" or "youngster" may not be legally enforceable. Suppose a customer signs up for a mega hosting plan @ S$120/month with a 1 year contract term sold by a company run by a technically proficient 13 yr old. That's S$1440. He can always abscond with the money, and when you sue him for breach of contract or commercial fraud,
I find this VERY unruling. AS you've said, "MOST" customer will not prefer working with a teenager. So why the heck in the first place they meet up and sign the contract? If the customer ALREADY do not want to work with a teen, then upon seeing the teen, i would just this customer is PURE STUPID.

Oh.. you might say, they did not sign one, but agreed upon. Can i ask a question? Since when did Singapore recognise verbal/unsigned contract as evidence?

Hmm .. SGD120 per MONTH hosting plan? That'll be around 5-8 GB plan? I think this customer is really big. But not suspecting the customer's liability, did the customer check up on the company beforehand? He did? and he knows the company is run by a 13 year old kid? So .. you know what i want to say. Fine if he don't know. we'll carry on. If he did not sign the contract, why would he have paid the hosting plan for so many months? 12 months? If he paid in full, one time, SGD1440, he did NOT check on the company. Oh my .. pure stupidity i would say. I'm not saying for all customer, if someone who can afford SGD120 hosting plan are usually companies to me. It's even worse, if it's so. They'll have to do annual closing year, and from the few companies i worked with in the past, but not in IT industry, anything you spend must be recorded. As such, for webhosting, you'll have to work with registered company! You mean this 12 year old boy had registered company? Oh under his parents? Fine, to the next point. If the customer who is running the business, is not working with a registered provider in this case, and he's a public company, i'll sue him with illegal meddling with company funds before he even sue the provider.


That's if the law suit even gets to the court in the first place especially since he's a minor. Then perhaps you'd sue the parents.. but gosh the whole process itself is such a headache!

You'll not be sueing his parent. You'll still be pressing charges against this boy. However, any charges/verdict on this boy will be redirected to their parents. It'll be the same as sueing the boy, it's no headache whether if he's a 31 year old ADULT/13 year old BOY.

Hi Putra,

I do agree that teens too, do a good job especially in other aspects of business. But since the demand is not there yet, most of these teens are further pushed into the background while the adults handle the importand aspects of the business e.g. sales, contract signing etc.

What demand? Demand for kids handling business? Business is all about profit and loss, nothing to be concern if it's a kid or adult. Why only adult for sales and contract? It's gonna be all about maturity of a person. I suppose you need a new tuition teacher for english. I've said this before, and i would like to repeat. 20 years old = Minor/teen | 21 years old = Adult. It still does not make sense! You mean a 20 year old chap can't do a better job than a 21 year old? This is silly. I discriminate this statement.


Lower startup costs is important to all business, as the less you spend means the less longer you have to wait to "recover the cost". However, when the demand for such services is low, or when your rivals are getting al your customers, THAT will be a disadvantage. Meaning, these teenagers suffer not because of low startup, but low customer flow.

You don't make sense again. What makes you think that, the demand for this service is low, your rivals will get your customer? If you make yourself competitive enough, why would they get your customer? If the demand is low, your rivals will get the rotten apple as well!

This HO scheme is only a stepping stone for our enterpreneurs. It helps you by lowering your start-up cost. But it'll all depend on you, your level of ability. It'll be like placing a bucket of water for a house of horses. It'll depend how good you are, and how skillful you can be, to get to drink the water. If you expect HO to do business with you, then stay at home, wait for government to give you more tax rebates, more NSS schemes.

Hi web_rookie, it's been long since i last see your posts. :)

anyway, under singapore law, a contract which is signed by anybody who's 21 and below (considered minor) is not valid. you can't sue them at all. never sign a contract agreement with a 21 and below. ;-)

Well, please read Introduction to Business Law, written by Ravi Chandran, second edition. It'll help. Why are you signing a contract with a individual(21 year old)? Unless it's outside business, any contract must be registered to a company. And signing an individual needs you to pre-verify the contract with a lawyer.

Hi jessw,

Actually, I believe that if a minor were to want to enter the web hosting profession (or any kind of business), he should seek his parents' help. That way, if he were to do anything illegal or what, then his parents/guardians are held responsible. That's what I think, anyway.

Yes, i agree too. But whether they did / did not seek parental help, if they create a mess when they do business, no matter what, their parents are going to be held responsible.

I hope this LOOOOOOOOOONG post do not offend anyone. However, i know that many words are very threatening and rude, but i want to change a phenomena mindset of you guys. It's really discriminating them, and it's not fair. How reliable one can do a business is based on his skill, self responsiblity and level of maturity. If you guys are exposed enough(which i believe many of you are), even adults do silly things a kid can do? Once again sorry if anyone i mentioned feel offended.

[Heng Chai]

Firstly, this thread is getting way off topic. I suggest the mods start splitting the thread and getting this fight out of this important topic of HO which is important to many of the potential businessmen/women who are here.

Putra: I suggest that you do not reply anymore. Reason is simple, you're stating your stand coupled with factual evidence. Any further posts would make this look totally like a cat/dog fight.

Any business or company with enough common sense won't work with an individual under the age of 21 who is providing business services AND is not an employee of a registered company. An business/company can sign a agreement/contract WITH an individual 21 years old or older OR WITH a registered company. In any other cases, the agreement/contract is invalid.

Hostings: I suggest you drop the "trying to be a lawyer" look and remove your posts that refer to the law. I won't bother trying to explain the numerous errors you have made in your "legal comments" which are based on your own comments/opinions/guesses instead. I believe the rest of the members should be able to pick them out for you. If you insist that your "legal comments" are right, let me know and I'll vet through you text and point each and every one out.

PS. If you have so much time to try to defend your stance about youngsters/teens doing business, start by showing everyone you can and have done it. Pitting your comments/opinions against facts and evidence is not the way to earn a reputation in forums.

[chin]

I had also deleted some double posting in this thread by Hostings

[jessw]

Agreed that a new thread should be started regarding minors in web hosting. Anyway, I don't think the Home Office scheme really helps unscrupulous youngsters in any way.

[Hostings]

Thanks SG.GS for this settlement. And if you do have the time, i would really thank you if you can point the errors out, so that i can note the publishers.

I've also said, i'm in no way on purpose to offend anyone here, and above posts are really not to defend myself, but also those young enterpreneurs friends i had. It's just "words of justice". I suppose i shouldn't add in more to it, as it'll look more that i'm trying to create a fight around. But i would stand for myself, i didn't make myself look like a lawyer, and i'm not one. In no way, i'm free to gain such reputation in forums, where there isn't a need to.

I shall apologise if i offend anyone, like putra/mods. But in anyway, i would like to ask this. Had anyone signed up for this HO scheme?

[Hostings]

Putra : yeah. it allows you for those, @SGD20. But you'll have to pay if you mail anything / make any calls tho .. :D

[webline]

well said heng chai. ;-)

[Hostings]

But well, it's in your house. But the bad thing about it is that it's in your home too. If anyone intends to stir troubles, you might be disturbing your neighbours/family. I agree with what my friend had said, if you got a baby of other members of family at home, it'll somehow cause some distraction to work, unless you manage to keep yourself undisturbed by locking up yourself in the room.

[jessw]

That's a very valid point.

Can I just ask: Is it possible that, for example, I register my business using a home address under the Home Office scheme, but also get a VO as a mailing address for the business? Meaning my business is registered, but the address I give on my website is not the registered address.

Not that I intend to do it, but just wondering if this breaks any rules or what. I think it's pretty misleading to customers if this is possible.

[webline]

i don't think so.
if you're going for HO scheme, why bother to go through the old method, which is getting a business registering address?
i think the reason why people go for HO scheme is because they can use their home address as business address. in a way, this help to save the monthly subscription of a business registering address, which usually cost around 5 to 25 bucks.

[Hostings]

But well, it's still a certain level of privacy. You'll never know your rival send some chaps knocking your house everyday.

[jessw]

Or disgruntled customers coming in person to threaten your family! Now there's a disturbing thought...