RCB enquiry [Archive] - Singapore Web Hosting Talk

irishblue

01-04-2003, 20:20

You can find more informations here:
http://www.sedb.com/edbcorp/programmetechsg_tho1.jsp
(this is actually linked from the business.gov.sg site SG.GS posted)

Found this in an older thread:
http://www.sgwebhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=704&perpage=30&highlight=illegal&pagenumber=2
"Using a company name without registering it can carry a penalty of S$5000 or 1 month imprisonment, but since you are 14, you are not liable for the imprisonment sentence, but YOU MAY BE BARRED FROM CARRYING OUT FURTHER BUSINESS IN FUTURE."

CrazyHost

01-04-2003, 22:16

What about if i get a web host reseller package from other company and sell it to other people, is this consider illegal? Will i face any penalty or imprisonment?

irishblue

01-04-2003, 22:46

I believe it is still considered as illegal... I remember reading somewhere here that as long as you are selling a service / products, you have to have a business name. But in reality, it is quite hard to trace even if you don't have a business name.

CrazyHost

02-04-2003, 01:05

Thank you very much. =P

chin

03-04-2003, 21:32

Originally posted by irishblue
I believe it is still considered as illegal... I remember reading somewhere here that as long as you are selling a service / products, you have to have a business name. But in reality, it is quite hard to trace even if you don't have a business name.

To check whether a company or business is registered with RCB, simply go here (http://web9.internet.gov.sg/rcb/owa/find.main) and enter the company or business name to find out.

CrazyHost

03-04-2003, 22:31

is registering rcb number free?

Xavior

04-04-2003, 05:17

no...
i aint really sure abt the price thou..
and you need a number of ppl in your company before you can register for one...

Heng Chai

04-04-2003, 08:50

You don't need a number of people if you're going for business registration (sole-proprietorship). If you are going for a company (Pte Ltd or Ltd), you need 2 directors and 1 secertary.

irishblue

04-04-2003, 09:11

Now its $100 for one year + one-time $15 admin charge. subsequent renewals are $25 I think. Yup even if you are a one man show, you can go for sole proprietorship business as SG.GS mentioned. chin, I meant that it will be hard for the authorities to trace you out that there is such a business that is unregistered. But it is easy for end-users to find out through that method you mentioned :)

Xavior

04-04-2003, 12:04

Originally posted by irishblue
Now its $100 for one year + one-time $15 admin charge. subsequent renewals are $25 I think. Yup even if you are a one man show, you can go for sole proprietorship business as SG.GS mentioned. chin, I meant that it will be hard for the authorities to trace you out that there is such a business that is unregistered. But it is easy for end-users to find out through that method you mentioned :)

eh.. tat cheap??
maybe i read e wrong biz reg tat time..
hmm..
haha.. thanks 4 e info =)

CrazyHost

04-04-2003, 15:47

Are there any HDB website which links to buiness registration? because i'm living in HBD flats, how many i going to get approved from them? Btw, is there any tax once a service is sold?

jeremy

04-04-2003, 23:58

I went to the start up advisor link and read all the stuff there (okay, most) lots of things to read up... read until my head started spinning :confused:

And further more, there are lots of licenses and stuff like that. Don't think webhosts need them right? :con3

Are there any HDB website which links to buiness registration? because i'm living in HBD flats, how many i going to get approved from them? Btw, is there any tax once a service is sold?

I think this would be useful:
http://www.sedb.com/edbcorp/programmetechsg_tho1.jsp

Was reading through the guidelines of the signage... and started imagining what it would be like for my aunts to stop by and see my sign outside my front door... :D

jeremy

05-04-2003, 00:04

Probably want to read this too: :book:

https://www.psi.gov.sg/NASApp/tmf/TMFServlet?gotoPage=BusinessActivityPage&page=IndustryListingPage&action=PROCESS&prmINid=1622&prmMode=IN

WARNING: Because of the immense number of pages and terms, you should take regular breaks and avoid reading them all at 1 go. Having a glass of water and a box or blister pack of Panadol Extra.

Hostings

10-04-2003, 12:25

Registration for company name is $15 and registration of business is $105. I don't think you need to apply anything from HDB or something.

I could recall reading somewhere that as long as it's technology-based business, you can register it using ur house address. For webhostings, i bet it falls into this. Even the Gas supplier i'm using currently host his office in his own HDB flat. What's more, my hairdresser mother registered her company using our HDB address for her little shop for her patrons.

Generally, you do not really have to apply for a licence to do such webhostings services. For normally, customers seldom fire you straight if you have a RCB number registered, so long as you provide good service, good quality and don't play tricks, idon't think you'll get trouble anywhere. But beware that if you're doing a registered company's business, they'll definitely 99% ask for you company name to checkout with.

But if you're doing individual, there shouldn't be a big problem casted.

Glenn

10-04-2003, 12:32

webhostings? I thought should be webhosting.

irishblue

10-04-2003, 18:01

Originally posted by Hostings
Registration for company name is $15 and registration of business is $105. I don't think you need to apply anything from HDB or something.

You do need approval from HDB to use your home premises as your business address. This is part of the technopreneur scheme as some of us posted the links to the relevant sites above. When you register for your business at RCB, you are required to show proof of approval from the relevant authorities that you are able to use your home address.

Hostings

10-04-2003, 21:07

Glen : Sorry, i often press the wrong keys as i'm not good in typing. hehez.

irishblue : Really? IC, then i wonder how my Mum got her license.

neorder

11-04-2003, 01:21

i thought most resellers don't need it?

who already have it?

jeremy

11-04-2003, 09:51

Originally posted by neorder
i thought most resellers don't need it?

who already have it?

I think i'll be registering soon. Would be better i think... Still got to look for a nice affordable virtual office to use as a company address. But damn headache one when registering business... have to do accounts, which i've never done before. :confused:

damn... should have taken accounting at O levels... :(

Hostings

11-04-2003, 14:57

neorder : Resellers are "suppose" to have it too, but some are ignorant, or just do not want to get one.

jeremylim : You don't have to do your accounts unless you want to if you're registering as sole proprietorship. Please note that it requires you to be of 21 to register.

Xavior

11-04-2003, 15:29

one suggestion lar..
for those who has already registered, or have registered before.. share on how you register and where ...
aint that much better?

jeremy

11-04-2003, 21:47

Originally posted by Hostings
neorder : Resellers are "suppose" to have it too, but some are ignorant, or just do not want to get one.

jeremylim : You don't have to do your accounts unless you want to if you're registering as sole proprietorship. Please note that it requires you to be of 21 to register.

Thanks. I am 21 :D

If i don't wish to register as a sole proprietorship, what other choices do I have? I think registering as a company would be too ex. :confused:

neorder

12-04-2003, 00:39

i saw some ppl have a virtual office at singapore international plaza?

it's an office address, and there is a PO box.
it's a soccer tips giver's office. he collect money from there.

any one know how to get one from international plaze? or is there a place called that? actually i am not sure about it.

by the way, me too a student, i stated my company is a Inc. at my site, looks like i shouldn't do that too?

is it really necessary to register a company for your website?...

neorder

12-04-2003, 01:05

i got learn balance sheet, income statement those things in the last sem, hah hah. ENG school is better. we even got learn Management of Enterprise.

but if jeremy, if you want to have a real business plan for web hosting business, you can buy one. http://thewhir.com/research/reseller-plan.cfm
around 35 dollars.

if you don't mind, we can find a few of us here to share the cost, it's just a word template.

btw, what's the reason you not go for solo?
i saw most other hosting company go for Inc. but i dont' know how to become a Inc.

gota check it out...

jeremy

12-04-2003, 01:13

btw, what's the reason you not go for solo?
Hmm? Not sure what you mean. Care to rephrase?

but if jeremy, if you want to have a real business plan for web hosting business, you can buy one.
I doubt it. If it is so easily available, won't you be the same as every other host that bought the plan? Then you won't be unique anymore. And also, I've this guy who wanted a partnership before. Worked at Verio and FeaturePrice before. Know what he told me about their technique of getting big? Spend all your money on advertising. Spend as little as possible on support. This is completely the opposite of what I think is right. :mad:

jeremy

12-04-2003, 01:16

Originally posted by neorder
i got learn balance sheet, income statement those things in the last sem, hah hah. ENG school is better. we even got learn Management of Enterprise.

Lol... I learnt.... I forgot what I learnt liao :D

Maybe go buy some accounting software help me out lor... I tried out quickbooks the other day... I use liao lagi more blur than before I started. :confused:

neorder

12-04-2003, 01:33

i mean sole. typed wrongly. also i failed english before. sorry.

i bought a software that can support me write biz plan, but damn there is no cd-key or crack file.

i also got peachtree, i feel the same like you use quickbooks.
it's too pro= for me.

regarding "Spend all your money on advertising. Spend as little as possible on support. " i ' d agree leh, there is one person had 3000 customers in 18mth, he said he did lots advertising, and really, althought his site looked plain, but he just can get that much customers.

jeremy

12-04-2003, 01:41

Oh! What I mean was, what are the other types of businesses. Partnership i know... I was just wanting to find out what choices I have. Pte Ltd is definitely out.

And for the customers thing, I think that most of us here want to give good support for all our customers. Else, whats the point. Look at most of the big players, featureprice, interland among others, they are getting lots of customers but they have a high attrition rate too. Always been taught, if you want to do it, do it well.

Trying to follow that. (Except my studies :D )

Heng Chai

12-04-2003, 02:49

Sole Prop, Partnership = Business
LLC (Limited Liabilities Company), Pte Ltd or Ltd = Company

I seriously suggest going for Pte Ltd. Your lawyer will tell you the same, not because he wants to earn your money when he helps you handle the paperwork, but because being a Pte Ltd protects yourself from any potential problems.

Hostings

12-04-2003, 12:50

The potential problems are likely to be of cases like bad debts and bankrupcy. Just in case anyone don't know,

Sole proprietorship and Partnerships are unlimited liabilities. Your business debts can be extended to your personal possesions, properties and so on. You'll up in the ST papers to show that you're bankrupt too.

For Pte Ltd companies, you're under limited liability and in case you're met with bad debts or bankrupcy, it'll be the company bankrupt and debts will not extend to your personal possesions and properties. The upmost amount you'll lose will be the capital you pump into your company.

Although some might say if you're not going for bad debts and bankrupcy, you should be alright. But there's always a "incase"? Just that meer little bad luck might cause you in the ST paper. Although what's bad about Pte Ltd is that you need to do financial closing year auditing at around March/April every year, you need to take care of your accounts, what's more it takes you 2 directors and 1 secretary to work. But there was an announcement that this rule will soon be abolish and auditing will be replace with spot checks.

Let's wait for this rule to be set ba.. :D

jeremylim : Actually your friend there has a point. If you do not have that kind of business, no point having that kind of support. You don't need to throw much in that much unless it's some hardware failure/colocation cost. It's just some little paperwork and your availability online to help them solve their technical problems.

P.S. :wow .. long post eh? :D

poshalu

13-04-2003, 21:06

Do I require to follow any ISP law to run my hosting business in Singapore.

Hostings

14-04-2003, 02:37

I don't think and haven't heard ISP have any rules for businesses. Just that you don't abuse your bandwith, not using too much of ur server's resource(i.e. 15%), i think you should be fine.

jeremy

14-04-2003, 10:00

Originally posted by Hostings
The potential problems are likely to be of cases like bad debts and bankrupcy. Just in case anyone don't know,

Sole proprietorship and Partnerships are unlimited liabilities. Your business debts can be extended to your personal possesions, properties and so on. You'll up in the ST papers to show that you're bankrupt too.

For Pte Ltd companies, you're under limited liability and in case you're met with bad debts or bankrupcy, it'll be the company bankrupt and debts will not extend to your personal possesions and properties. The upmost amount you'll lose will be the capital you pump into your company.

Although some might say if you're not going for bad debts and bankrupcy, you should be alright. But there's always a "incase"? Just that meer little bad luck might cause you in the ST paper. Although what's bad about Pte Ltd is that you need to do financial closing year auditing at around March/April every year, you need to take care of your accounts, what's more it takes you 2 directors and 1 secretary to work. But there was an announcement that this rule will soon be abolish and auditing will be replace with spot checks.

Let's wait for this rule to be set ba.. :D

jeremylim : Actually your friend there has a point. If you do not have that kind of business, no point having that kind of support. You don't need to throw much in that much unless it's some hardware failure/colocation cost. It's just some little paperwork and your availability online to help them solve their technical problems.

P.S. :wow .. long post eh? :D

Thanks for your advice. I surely won't want my name in the ST unless it's under the heading "Youngest Millionaire in Singapore at 22 Years Old" not "Bankrupt Before 22" :D

By the way, I read from some other posts that there's a large yearly auditing charge right? Like a few K or so and also to be a Pte Ltd, there has to be a yearly charge like >$1000 also?
:confused:

I very blur liao. By the way, which friend you refering to? The one that told me to spend all on advertising?

Heng Chai

14-04-2003, 11:03

Pte Ltd has high recurring costs, plus lots of accounting work to do. Unless you're prepared to hire a good accountant on maybe a yearly or monthly basis depending on the amount of transactions. Either way, its better for you to start as a sole prop then proceed to incorporation later on when it becomes a easier and viable option financially.

Hostings

14-04-2003, 19:24

If you're just doing webhosting for all your life and prepared to do just that, maybe before you're actually well established. But you might do other stuff in related with computers, networking and internet?

If you're able to expand, you can't pay few thousands per year when you earn few thousands per month? :D

TanGo

17-04-2003, 14:58

Originally posted by SG.GS
Pte Ltd has high recurring costs, plus lots of accounting work to do. Unless you're prepared to hire a good accountant on maybe a yearly or monthly basis depending on the amount of transactions. Either way, its better for you to start as a sole prop then proceed to incorporation later on when it becomes a easier and viable option financially.

I agree with SG.GS. it is not just spending a few thousand a year, but rather, the legal requirements are very different between sole and pte ltd, thus, much more time consuming. setting up a checking a/c with bank also easier with sole

My suggestion is to get a registered office at international plaza (check out the newspapers under secretarial svcs) shld be around $10 p/mth for a registered address. Then register your bz at RCB 5th floor.

Accounting for sole is very easy. just keep track of your sales (e.g. how much you receive), cost of goods (e.g. your payments to data centres, or upstream provider etc), and your expenses (transport etc.)
sales - cos - expenses = profit (for income tax)

if and when your bz is expanding, then you can consider pte ltd

Hostings

17-04-2003, 19:37

I'm not sure this is true as i had only asked one person. I asked my auntie who have a Pte Ltd company in SG dealing on health products.

What i learned from her is kind of different from what SG.GS has said. She told me that Pte Ltd do not have to do auditing but crews from Income Tax side will check your accounts( isn't what what auditing is about? :D ). Only Public Limited companies need to be audited as their shares are to the public. I believe that why she said so is because auditing = a procedure to safeguard the public's money but Pte Ltd needs auditing only if the directors are in numbers and want so( correct me if i'm wrong).

Plus, i understand from her that the finacial closing year is up to the company to decide, but normal it's 12 months. Some might go up to 18 months or so to save the costs, but big enterprises might even go for 3 month or even 6 months.

Anyone agree? Or anyone has more reliable piece of information to prove me wrong? :D

Heng Chai

17-04-2003, 21:20

http://www.rcb.gov.sg/company/index7.html

Read the first paragraph about auditors.

DoorKeeper

02-05-2003, 18:18

A sole proprietorship can be a good place to start. 2 ways of kick-starting:

(1) Go down to RCB at International Plaza. Bring your IC and some cash or your NETS card. Tell the friendly lady at the counter what you want to do and she will nudge you along. The business entity starts its life in a few days.

(2) Go to CPF Board and apply for your SingPass. You can then use it to register at http://www.bizfile.gov.sg .

Option 2 is cheaper because you don't waste their time.

Alternatively, use a Pte Ltd or proprietorship belonging to a relative or a close friend for your business first. But you are not the owner and not in full control of the business bank account.

A lot of people use their parent's names to start businesses.

customo

07-05-2003, 01:55

anyone of u here know how to convert sole to partnership
and is there a charge for that and how to go about doing it?

chin

07-05-2003, 09:18

I think is best to visit RCB site at www.rcb.gov.sg

imtrobin

07-05-2003, 13:04

Yes, there are charges (~10) for updating biz/company info. Just log into http://www.bizfile.gov.sg and see what you can do there.

Partnership and sole are same category so it's ok. If you talking about sole to pte ltd, then you need to close it down first, setup pte ltd, then transfer. Talk to a company providing secretarial services. They will help you (for a fee)

customo

07-05-2003, 13:14

thankx bin

francesca

26-05-2003, 00:52

P/L you need to pay a lump sum of $$ every year... like 10k or so

web host need not be regsitered..
how many are registered out here?
but from the trent now..
it's best to get it done if you are seriously in what you wana do.

using home address is possible...
go tro HDB and enquiry..
call ur area's HDB in-charge
they will process it and lead to EDB
after that then you can go to RCB

visual address...
mustafa there has a few
lik 100/mth

or...
you can use a friend's shop or co addreess to register.